Category Archives: barna

Happy Heretic, meet Happy God

28 Saturday Jun 2008

Posted by in a happy God, barna, George Barna, Hell, love of God, orthodoxy, revolution, Theodicy

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I’m happy to rediscover Judith Hayes, the Happy Heretic. I’m a happy heretic myself, being convinced that most of Christianity is dead wrong about the end game God has planned. 

In her most recent post, Judith points her incisive wit at the 7 visions of Hell described in an article she reviews. All the views, though nominally Christian, are not only illogical and wrongheaded, but unbiblical.

In the Bible view, Hell is always 52 degrees … a little chilly but you won’t care because when you go there, you can’t feel anything anyway. And everyone goes there — including Jesus. And no, it’s not the body that goes there, it’s the soul — the existence or conscious life, which is clearly said to die, not live immortally. (Jesus’ soul went to hell — hades, oblivion — while his body lay in a tomb). 

And in the Bible view, Hell (oblivion — the condition of death inhabited by the children of Adam) is cast into the “Lake of Fire” — eternal oblivion, absolute destruction. How does one absolutely destroy the condition of death for all the souls who have died since Adam? Well, the Bible makes that clear, too: you resurrect them out of death — all of them.

In the Bible view, Death also gets cast into the Lake of Fire. Are we tormenting Death here? No, we’re also obliterating the process of Death, and the sentence of Death that was given to all human beings way back in Genesis. That whole dying process, that whole engine of despair and pain, of what God told Adam would be “dying though shalt die” will go out of existence… along with all the things that were invented to make it either easier (guns, ammo, bombs) or less painful (doctors, hospitals, clergymen). All gone. Foof.

Oh, and Judith, don’t worry.  I’m not saying you have to do anything about meeting God right now. When he’s ready, he promises to introduce himself to everyone, and at that point participating in his pleasant society will be strictly voluntary and with no strings attached (other than the kind of rational interactions and mutuality that I can tell you would find appealing, according to Revelation 22:17.)

Judith is asking the same questions that I think God is asking the Christian church today. He is poking them in the chest, demanding that they answer the questions that Judith so eloquently articulates:

Will we ever stop this nonsense? Will the day come when we stop screaming threats at each other about some outlandish place of torture in some invisible, unknowable afterworld? When will we cease to believe in this maliciously cruel myth called Hell? When are we going to learn to appreciate our wonderful world and our all-too-brief visit here? When will love and tolerance finally dominate hate? When will….oh, the hell with it.

The answer of “will the day come…?” is found in Isaiah 28:15-18

“When…?” is a little bit trickier. I’ll give my 2 cents another day, but Barna clearly documents the fact that Isaiah 25:18 and Revelation 18 (comeuppance for Xtianism) are well under way.

By the way, you might also like to meet Josh Brown, who after his own exodus calls the corruption of Christianity “the religious industrial complex.”

Barna first Q&A

05 Sunday Nov 2006

Posted by in barna, George Barna, off-the-map, revolutionconference

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Q from former youth pastor — What about the scriptures that say that the body has pastors, elders, leaders, etc. How do we reconcile those with the Revolution which seems to be abandoing those kinds of forms?

[Kindig: my notes are sketchy here someone, either George or the questioner, talks about how a Wolfgang Simpson book, Houses that changed the world, changed his life. I think it was George who said this, and mentioned the 15 theses of the book, which you can read here:

Barna’s A: Submitting to elders — God has called people to play different roles — even in small relational groups, some emerge as leaders — it’s normative in small groups to have an individiual who leads.
This does not need to be heavy handed — but there is a gift of leadership — and the group must learn to recognize that.

Q — How do you find these people? How do you do your research?
Barna’s A: We get random samples — used to be, we worked in and got some of our samples in churches. Now, not much work in churches. Mostly we look at the culture at large — ask batteries of questions not just straight up questions about what they claim to believe and do, but look at all their beliefs and lifestyle decisions, and from their statements of belief sort by whether they are nominals , atheists, other faith groups, evangelicals, etc.
Typical samples are considered large in this kind of work — at least 1000 from acrosss the country. We have done special samplings of groups as large as 22,000.

Recently we’ve done a lot of research on what other forms of church have emerged — house, marketplace, ministries, cyberchurches, intentional — we’ve found them to be organic, growing slowly and spreading.

Q — What do you do if you’re a pastor but you feel like a revolutionary?

Barna’s A: The starting point is understanding what it is we’re trying to facilitate — look at issue of ongoing transformations — becoming more Christlike. This has nothing to do with activities,
more to do with relationships, personal passion, growth.

The pastor must think outside the “box” — the church building — and look at what takes place outside of the institutional church — the relational communities — and ask, “How can I facilitate these communities?”

[It’s very hard to break out of the standard ] “set in cement” ideas: show up, put money in plate, hire staff, be more efficient, create new programs, etc. — none of which Jesus died on the cross for.

Paradoxically, one of the elements that facilitates the Revolution…. is inefficiency!

Being out of control helps somehow to create opportunities for transformation to take place.

Barna Friday: Revolution Defined

03 Friday Nov 2006

Posted by in barna, Christian trends, George Barna, off-the-map, revolution, revolutionconference

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Here at the RevCon the first speaker was George Barna.

Here are my notes of his content, unnedited with my take…..>>>>>

Most Americans have always viewed the goal of life as ongoing shared experiences
We work to enjoy comfort and options and control in all facets of our lifee — including church.

Yes, there’s a revolution of faith — but it’s triggered by many other revolutions
[He enumerated several which are mostly obvious to all of us.]
Websters definition of Revolution: the repudiation and thorough replacement of an established system.
Or: A radical and persuasive change in society or social structures, systems, routines, or rules.

There are millions of devout followers of Christ who are repudiating the systems, routines, and rules of the institutional Christian church.

20 million people are involved in this revolution today.

For these “revolutionaries”:

1. God is their top priority
Many claim this, but the question is,
What are you REALLY committted to?

2. They want more of God in their lives, but are willing to do whatever it takes to get that.

3. They want to live their faith, not just understand and talk about it.

4. Their ultimate goal is not selfish, but having more of God in their lives.

In a nutshell, they are God Crazy.

Who are they?

a. Some have tried literally everything else in life — and come back to God via futility.

b. Some were pursuing God, had a profound experience, and couldn’t settle for anything less

c. Some had dormant faith, many churches, groups, activities, programs, and eventually found it meaningless … then came back and found God in more significant way

CRs (Christian Revolutionaries) have:

*No use whatsoever for churches that play political or religious games
*No use for churches that provide entertaining events rather than transformational whole-life experiences
*No use for church stewardship campaigns — which serve their own institutional building needs or salaries or power
*No use for churches that soft-sell sin to expand their institutional turf
*No use for pastors more concerned about their own popularity instead of truth
— who measure success by numbers of people, square footage, number on staff, money raised
*Decided that no longer should the church be expected raise their family spiritually
*Made a decision to not enroll children in spiritual babysitting instead of preparing for spiritual war
*Choose to leave places that promise Christian love but exemplify lifestyles that are indistinguishable from the world system.

The Revolution is about Transformational Christianity.

CRs are NOT rebels, but revolutionaries — an important distinction. CRs major on those elements that matter most to God. In taking a stand, they are simply choosing to honor God — to honor Him, not human institutions.

Church — little c institutional church — is what people made up to control processes.
As humans we’ve made that processs “holy” while losing the sense of what is truly sacred.

So they say, “let’s go back…”

Instead of thinking of worship as an event each week, choose to learn how to engage in worship every day

Learn that work, family, neighborhood contains daily opportunitites provided by God for each of us — to live out our lives as an act of worship

God made us to worship him, not manipulate people into salvation

God called us not so much to preach Jesus but to be Christ to the culture

It is more about caring than competing

More about being vulnerable and real in conversation than being right

CRs are embracing their own personal responsibility for growing — acknowledging that when they appear before God, they won’t be able to say, “but my church let me down…”

CRs do not worry about tithing — money…. they don’t really own anything — everything was given them by God
CRs are portfolio managers for the kingdom of God, so to speak

CRs dont’ think about voluntaring some of their free time for “the Lord’s work”.

Instead, they are sensitive to the opportunities that God gives us every moment of every day

Not merely content to be a “member”…. but a participant in genuine community — even though smaller — they seek to love, care, support, accept … and experience a true sense of community

CRs recognize that it’s not a chruches job to raise up their children. Friends, families, faith can help — but ultimately its our job

DIFFERENT LIFE

The journey of a CR [is unique?] each leads different life.
[Common thread?] a growing sense of dissatisfaction;
… a search for greater authenticity…insight…. leads each one to the foot of the Cross.

They find it,
they get excited,
they go back to their conventional church and explain to their leaders what excitement they’ve found —
and the leaders typically patted them on the back and and said, “get plugged in”
“we are the professionals — fit yourself into our structure” —

DIFFERENT MODELS

But now, being transformed people, they can’t sustain their engagement in that system any longer.
So they extricate themselves — sometimes from anger — which becomes a spiritual issue they must deal with.
But in [working through] their isolation, frustration, irritation, eventually they lead completely different lives.

Now, their moral perspectives are different.
The way they view money is different.
Their belief system is different.

When you look at the many denominations of the institutional church, there are few actual differences [in belief or personal character traits] across denominations.

With CRs, there are significant differences:
During the time of their Investigation and initiating of spiritual transformation, they got involved in something in a more meaningful way.
Often, they tested new forms or structures.
Frequently when they made those connections, they joined spiritual minimovements:
homeschooling, spiritual discussions or study groups, parenting groups, parachurch ministries, prayer groups, networks… Each was a shared affinity anchored around their faith.

It was through that web that they began to be transformed —

Many of those individual connections are morphing into new forms of the church.

In the Bible — “church” is a called out people — who came together to love each other.

New forms, that ignore the non-biblical traditions: cyberchurches, intentional,
3rd place, marketplace ministries, house churches.

DIFFERENT IMPACT

These different forms have a different impact on culture.

Reshaping contours — In Year 2000, 65% – 75% have their spiritual main point of contact through conventional church

by 2025 — only 30-35% will rely on conventional church.
Where will the rest be? in the alternatives now springing up: house churches, cyber churches, independent worship, marketplace and parachurch ministries, etc.

People are taking their faith out of sanctuaries and into the world.

The essence is not about changing methodologies — style of music, titles of people who run, methods of teaching or preaching…
that’s not what revolution is about
Nor is it about allowing greater freedom.

It’s not even about allowing emerging generations to develop their own styles, or new leaders, or new places/venues to meet.

The Revolution IS about facilitating transformation through an intimate relationship with God —
a holistic approach — the top priority in life — not about going to church, but about BEING the church — because that’s what we’re called to be.

I don’t really have the authority to do this but… anyway…. I’d like to invite you to be part of this Revolution!

>>> End of George Barna’s morning message notes